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A couple of suggestions
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Hello
I believe that warmerise has its own DNA and its one of the reasons why its a fun casual game to play therefore not having the need to copy certain features and systems from other famous games mainly fps, like CS and COD, however this does not mean that we shouldn't see what those other games do right and try to adapt in here in order to create a more enjoyable experience, and the game that I've recently been playing, you might have heard it, its fortnite, love it or hate epic games does do a good job in establishing some mechanics in their game that despite not being groundbreaking either are not new or only now with the game's relevance have come to spotlight
So next are some suggestions that i'd like to make, im creating a new forum instead of another cause for what i understood you can't comment on old, innactive threads, pls correct/explain me if I'm wrong, so onto the suggestions.
1) Grenade trajectory line
for those who play it you know what im talking about, this offers a reliable line that shows the trajectory of a grenade and its place of impact, this would also solve another problem (slighty) that i've seen some ppl complain mainly on the M67 but not only refered to this which is the spam of explosive items, since to implement this G.T.L you'd need to change how a grenade is throwed, instead of just pressing a key (v as a default) you'd need to press v to select it and then mouse's left button to launch it.
2) Enemy Damage dealt display
Instead of having to deviate your attention to a mid right on screen dmg log attach it to the enemy player, this way we can have a clearer and faster view on if we're doing dmg (in case of spawn protection) and on how much
Last but not least 3)Bullet sound When playing warmerise ive come to notice that a bullet doesnt make any sound when traveling in mid air The only sound the player can hear is the shot itself and the ricochet. when in fortnite if a (e.g.) a sniper shot passes right next to you you'll ear that nerve wrecking and 'scary' buzzing sound This is a small implementation that (let me know) is easy to do, however smth that i believe would be a great step on improving the player experience since it has the ability to the feeling of eminent danger Let me know what are your thoughs and opinions on this
3) Bullet 'buzzing' sound
In warmerise, a player is only able to hear 2 sounds, the shot itself and the ricochet, if a bullet passes close to your head for example you won't hear a thing, my suggestion is to implement this sourt of sounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2mHMkZlFxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLw3B421JH0 this is a step forward on optimizing the player's experiencing, causing him a rush of adrenaline since this sounds effect can show the iminent sound of danger while improving the overall atmosphere
This post was edited by VeiN at June 18, 2018 8:26 AM PDT -
Disclaimer: I don't like fortnite:BR, but I do want to talk about these new mechanics.
I think the biggest issue with getting these features implemented would be a technical one. The code this game is based on is older than some of the kids who play fortnite, so things like positional audio from incoming bullets is a bit of a complex process to implement, much more so than you'd think it would be.
Damage numbers are a similar story: while useful and seemingly simple, you'd have to instance a damage prefab, set the damage value, then continuously set the rotation of that object to always point to the player. While possible, I'm betting this would be a performance hit. Totally happy to be proven wrong on that one though.
As for that throwing arc, I actually came up with that a while ago as a way to nerf the tomahawks. The idea was that by forcing them to take longer to throw, they would be less effective without needing to remove the instant kill potential. By applying that to all grenades though, you haven't really balanced them out so much as you have made them all really boring to use. Fortnite is, by comparison, a slower game than warmerise. In warmerise, I want to press v and have my grenade be on its merry way. I know where the grenade is going to land because I've practiced enough with it. I don't need that level of precision to warrant needing a second button press to throw. If, however, you had this mechanic on an entirely new grenade that isn't currently in the game I would be very happy to use it. I just don't want to see a patch that slows the game down too much to be fun. -
I see, being technically difficult is the same as technically executable? -by other words, is it hard to do or implement with sucess-
what I didn't knew was that part of the code being old, and my main question is, if the code is that old and is needing a re-work why didn't that re-work happened when the game was down? wouldn't this have been a perfect timing? and what would a rework/refresh on the code bring to warmerise? a better performance?
About the performance hit, I do think that it would affect it but that dmg display wouldn't be that damaging that would be a turn off
As for the throwing arc we could atleast try it i guess, maybe adding a draw/drag like in the bow with some tweaks with it (about 20% more damage and 15% less on the Explosion Radius)
i think that being a fast passed game is a good thing reminds me of quake and freefall tournament but this doesnt mean a constant spam of grenades
This post was edited by VeiN at June 18, 2018 2:10 PM PDT -
"-by other words, is it hard to do or implement with sucess-"
Yeah, pretty much. Warmerise is built on unity, but since it was created, unity has developed new ways of doing things (like sound, textures, UI, etc.) and then replaced the old ways of doing those things with these new systems. Those older systems are called legacy systems, and warmerise uses a LOT of legacy systems. I haven't seen the code for myself, but I'm pretty certain the animation engine and texture shaders are both legacy systems.
"If the code is that old and is needing a re-work why didn't that re-work happened when the game was down?"
That's the thing, at this point I'm guessing it would be easier to create the game from scratch, starting over from literally nothing, than it would be to remove all the legacy code in the game. That's a huge project, and if I were Max, I wouldn't want to do it either.
"and what would a rework/refresh on the code bring to warmerise? a better performance?"
Normally I would say "yes it would be a huge performance improvement", but I don't want to at this point because I'm not sure how much of it is warmerise and how much of it is WebGL. I don't know if using the most modern systems is going to be a big performance boost for WebGL or not. I would need to create an entirely new multiplayer FPS to test that, and at that point you might as well re-make warmerise. At the very least you could make the game look a lot better. The new unity render pipelines look amazing, and they support PBR materials which are designed to be photorealistic with roughness maps, height maps, and metallic maps. I work with PBR materials in my free time, that's how I made those HD weapon skins I have featured here: https://warmerise.com/albums/view/8200
"About the performance hit, I do think that it would affect it but that dmg display wouldn't be that damaging that would be a turn off"
The more I thought about this, the more I would like to see it. Looking down to the right is a little annoying, and if it's an optional feature then any performance hit can simply be fixed by turning it off.
"As for the throwing arc... like in the bow with some tweaks with it (about 20% more damage and 15% less on the Explosion Radius)"
That actually sounds great! Having a grenade with a small explosion range, but higher damage would be perfect for a throwing arc because now it's more important to precisely aim a throw. This is legitimately a great idea!
" being a fast passed game is a good thing reminds me of quake and freefall tournament but this doesnt mean a constant spam of grenades"
I think the reason the M67 is getting spammed is because there's really no reason not to use them. They're cheap, and the only other thrown explosive is kinda terrible, plus it's the most fun grenade to use. Another thread I commented on recently was complaining about the M67, and honestly I think that if the game had more fun grenades to choose from, the M67 would get used less. -
You seem to have a ton of knowledge on this area and I like it, you explain it really well and in a simple way to someone who understands very little (me)
I'd LOVE to see an optimized warmerise, that in the best case, would look way better and run way smoother, if the end visual result would look simillar to your work it would be some top tier stuff for a browser game.
The tweaks I mentioned were to be implement on the m67 but i think you're right, such a big nerf on that gun would cause a large displease (like we saw with the graivity gun) so a new grenade would be an interesting approach and while a need for a more powerfull, precise, less radius 'nade is a good start for a grenade i don't think this would be enough on its own to have the need to create an entire new item, it needs another 'smth'
I saw that post too, and while i agree with you i dont 100% agree with your view that its powerfull cause its overused (or the other way around not sure what was your comment tbh) im more of a 50/50, i think that Max was adding or did had a cooldown time, & I don't possess the M67, but for what it seems that didn't come to effect and if this cooldown did its a bit impercetible, while i don't like those forums where they just ask stuff to be resolved instead of coming up with fresh ideas i do agree a bit with the dude that it can be spammed, i recall playing in certain servers that are more CQB and its just hell on earth, in 1v1 this isnt felt as much ig but in big teams vs big teams, if they all possess the item looks like you're at the end of the cretacious, so going from 3 to 2 m67 (i think that all additional items should go from 3 to 2) may in addition to a slightly longer cooldown solve the problems, once again i strongly think that this is the type of stuff that should be texted on a testing page for a long time with a right number and the right people and only them should it come to public, otherwise you're gonna introduce an item and when you come to realize that it needs a tweak (normally a nerf) the community as already grown attatched to the stats and people are in general resitant to change, the main example that comes to my mind is like i refered before the gravity, and I understand, atleast I try to, peoples displease, I would be to, but they need to see the bigger picture and see whats better for the game
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I stopped half way through these posts, sorry xD it's just a lot to read. Anyways, here's my view on your suggestions, regardless of either it can be implemented or not.
1) Gernade trajectory line: If this is not something that'll lower game performance, I will love to see this in game. And also an indicator to alert the player who's under the vicinity of a bomb explosion, would also be a nice addition. Right now, we just have to use our sixth sense to predict if we're out of the field of explosion.
2) Enemy damage dealt display:
The damage log displayed on the mid right is not added to indicate damages, it was added to give a brief log on how much damage you made on your enemy and how much more would you need, so you can switch to a suitable weapon for that. Although it does act as a damage indicator but it wasn't initially planned on doing so. We already have 2 signals that indicates any damage we make on enemy. i.e the cross hair signal, and the damage sound signal.
3) buzzing sound:
I'd love to see this addiction in game, only if that doesn't lower the performance. Sorry I'm just too concerned about the performance xD
I loved the suggestion for removing the instant drop or throw of nade, instead making it a switchable weaponry item. Some people have been bothered with "jump and throw" or "fly and throw" or even "run and drop" of trap mine. This possible implementation will completely eradicate those things, and bring trap mines into their true way of use. Though this brings the game more realistic and thus, less futuristic, but I'd love to see these implementations anyways.
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"And also an indicator to alert the player who's under the vicinity of a bomb explosion, would also be a nice addition"
Indeed, its a great idea that didn't come to me!
about your number 2, yeah thats pretty much what i was saying, the amount (and if its or its not doing damage in addition)
try seing some fortnite videos and you'll see what im talking about
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Chrono I've been thinking of your comment and as i think of it i come more to realize and agree with you on the grenades topic, in which having more options would reduce the m67 usage. (i was thinking of an eletric grenade, this 'funny' -ig- item)
My update on this, the part 2, that i wanted to make was a suggestion on the addition of the hability to see the players POV when spectating
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Damage numbers are a similar story: while useful and seemingly simple, you'd have to instance a damage prefab, set the damage value, then continuously set the rotation of that object to always point to the player. While possible, I'm betting this would be a performance hit. Totally happy to be proven wrong on that one though.
Not really, no. You can have a UI Text element and update it's text and attach it to player prefab. That's all there is.
Speaking of performance Warmerise uses C# 3.0 and many of the stuff like Chrono said is legacy. Many of the new multiplayer games use .Net Fx 4.0 and the latest Unity elements which is why they don't get a major performance hit. A good example is UFPS/MFPS both can be ran on WebGl, offer much better graphics and have all the modern elements of a MFPS/FPS game.
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Zero said:
Damage numbers are a similar story: while useful and seemingly simple, you'd have to instance a damage prefab, set the damage value, then continuously set the rotation of that object to always point to the player. While possible, I'm betting this would be a performance hit. Totally happy to be proven wrong on that one though.
Not really, no. You can have a UI Text element and update it's text and attach it to player prefab. That's all there is.
Speaking of performance Warmerise uses C# 3.0 and many of the stuff like Chrono said is legacy. Many of the new multiplayer games use .Net Fx 4.0 and the latest Unity elements which is why they don't get a major performance hit. A good example is UFPS/MFPS both can be ran on WebGl, offer much better graphics and have all the modern elements of a MFPS/FPS game.
Zero, How much would it take to rewrite it? transfer warm from the legacy to eg .Net Fx 4.0
aprox. ofc this doesn't have a certain answer, but your opinion
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You'd be better off creating a new game instead of doing a rewrite of the current one. The current code is not worth salvaging in any shape or form but again if you've the dedication then it should take a month or 2 to finish most of the rewrite assuming you spend a whole day rewrting it.
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VeiN said:
Chrono I've been thinking of your comment and as i think of it i come more to realize and agree with you on the grenades topic, in which having more options would reduce the m67 usage. (i was thinking of an eletric grenade, this 'funny' -ig- item)
My update on this, the part 2, that i wanted to make was a suggestion on the addition of the hability to see the players POV when spectating
this has already been suggested a couple of times, wouldn't mind actually
would for sure make the experience of spectating a lot better if u ask me
This post was edited by STERBEN99 at June 24, 2018 9:06 AM PDT -
Zero said:
You'd be better off creating a new game instead of doing a rewrite of the current one. The current code is not worth salvaging in any shape or form but again if you've the dedication then it should take a month or 2 to finish most of the rewrite assuming you spend a whole day rewrting it.
what would be the gains for the game? would performance go up?
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VeiN said:
Zero said:
You'd be better off creating a new game instead of doing a rewrite of the current one. The current code is not worth salvaging in any shape or form but again if you've the dedication then it should take a month or 2 to finish most of the rewrite assuming you spend a whole day rewrting it.
what would be the gains for the game? would performance go up?
I can't say for certain one way or another. I'd need Zero, or another programmer who's more familiar with how webGL works as a technology. However, at the very least, I can say that the game would be more ready to upgrade in the future. As WebGL evolves, as well as Unity and game engines as a whole, it would be easier to keep on top of new features and new optimizations without needing to maintain weird workarounds and buggy patches for legacy systems.
Again though, it would all REALLY depend on how efficiently WebGL works. It's something that would need to be tested with a new multiplayer FPS written from the ground up in Unity 2018.
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VeiN said:
Hello
I believe that warmerise has its own DNA and its one of the reasons why its a fun casual game to play therefore not having the need to copy certain features and systems from other famous games mainly fps, like CS and COD, however this does not mean that we shouldn't see what those other games do right and try to adapt in here in order to create a more enjoyable experience, and the game that I've recently been playing, you might have heard it, its fortnite, love it or hate epic games does do a good job in establishing some mechanics in their game that despite not being groundbreaking either are not new or only now with the game's relevance have come to spotlight
So next are some suggestions that i'd like to make, im creating a new forum instead of another cause for what i understood you can't comment on old, innactive threads, pls correct/explain me if I'm wrong, so onto the suggestions.
1) Grenade trajectory line
for those who play it you know what im talking about, this offers a reliable line that shows the trajectory of a grenade and its place of impact, this would also solve another problem (slighty) that i've seen some ppl complain mainly on the M67 but not only refered to this which is the spam of explosive items, since to implement this G.T.L you'd need to change how a grenade is throwed, instead of just pressing a key (v as a default) you'd need to press v to select it and then mouse's left button to launch it.
2) Enemy Damage dealt display
Instead of having to deviate your attention to a mid right on screen dmg log attach it to the enemy player, this way we can have a clearer and faster view on if we're doing dmg (in case of spawn protection) and on how much
Last but not least 3)Bullet sound When playing warmerise ive come to notice that a bullet doesnt make any sound when traveling in mid air The only sound the player can hear is the shot itself and the ricochet. when in fortnite if a (e.g.) a sniper shot passes right next to you you'll ear that nerve wrecking and 'scary' buzzing sound This is a small implementation that (let me know) is easy to do, however smth that i believe would be a great step on improving the player experience since it has the ability to the feeling of eminent danger Let me know what are your thoughs and opinions on this
3) Bullet 'buzzing' sound
In warmerise, a player is only able to hear 2 sounds, the shot itself and the ricochet, if a bullet passes close to your head for example you won't hear a thing, my suggestion is to implement this sourt of sounds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2mHMkZlFxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLw3B421JH0 this is a step forward on optimizing the player's experiencing, causing him a rush of adrenaline since this sounds effect can show the iminent sound of danger while improving the overall atmosphere
A more visible hitmarker on the shotgun, the shotgun has the particularity of shooting pellets, so my idea was to add a red dot on the crosshair for each pellet that hits the target
This idea is also inspired on fortnite, its a good way to see if your shot did some light, medium or heavy damage, I will try to find a video and post it here
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Since my suggestion number 3 was heard and implemented, which i very much appreciate i want to leave another suggestion to Max
explanation;
when we are playing if we are a little further away from the shots being fired and are not the target, we basically don't hear anything, its just a blank sound, so my suggestion is this, each time a player shots his weapon in addition of us earing the sonic boom when the bullets passes next to us (i also wanted to suggest maybe make this radius about 50% longer) or hits an object near us, we'd hear this crackiling sounds in the distance of shots feing fired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCvLiDkjQTc
here are some sounds of weapons in fortnite that i want you not only to pay attention to the detail on movement (like listening the player scope) but the way distance makes sound vary, idk if its possible but maybe use this sounds on our weapons i guess, not 100% but some stuff i think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEULaIx6-8A sniper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhHlSa48d10 smg's
something that i think warmerise is lacking and that a lot of FPS also fail is to give attention to sound design, and in a FPS (like in almost all games only in different situations) we need adrenaline, i want to feel the "danger", adding this shots would make the game way more immersive
what do you think? let me know about your opinions
This post was edited by VeiN at September 16, 2018 1:39 PM PDT